Dario Western
2010-01-30 20:21:57 UTC
Hey Anna and JonZeee,
<posts snipped for brevity>
"Anna....i for the first time am impressed by an older gentleman who tells
it like he has seen it over the years...although he and his wife
were more or less conservative he does tell it like it is......if nudist
could admit that nudism is about exhibitionism and exhibitionism is sexual
if done while naked.....and stop ever referring to textiles as being
anything other than the customer base of which all places of businesses draw
from..whether it be the gas station or the nudist camps....if a nudist is
going to write a book for textiles to respect and find interesting to
read...it will have to be from an actual nudist with not one hint of
contempt for the laws or the textiles that wrote the laws..."
There is a difference between nudism and exhibitionism. Nudism is about
being nude in mutually agreed company without any other intent (note the big
keyword: *INTENT*). Exhibitionism does not have to be about sexuality or
nudity, although of course it can incorporate either of these two, it is
about being noticed whilst other people are not. It can take the part of
performing on stage, preaching on a soapbox, flash-mobbing - just anything
where you are or where you are part of the main focus. Exhibitionism with
nudity can apply to the likes of a Spencer Tunick photo-shoot, or the
displays of civil disobedience by the likes of the Doukhabours, Vincent
Bethell, Terri Sue Webb, Daniel Johnson, Andrew Martinez, Richard Collins
and of course Steven Gough.
Nudism in the modern world was founded on civil disobedience and contempt
for the evils of modern living - pollution, over-crowded living - virtually
everything that the Industrial Revolution brought about. My take on the
laws is simple: if it does not kill, maim or injure any being, then make it
legal (although of course stealing, cheating and lying must not be exempt
from that!)
"it will have to include all thethings that nudist try to suppress....the
sexual part of course and
the fact that some children are like adults they are turned on by
nakedness and there is where that nudist continue to deny deny and
deny....even if they admit it nothing will ever be done about it from
the textiles position other than it would spark more traffic coming to
the camps of which would be more sex seekers....but nudist have a bad
habit of saying bad things and creating animosity between them and the
swingers by stating they cause the nudist to have a bad name.....well
let the nudist without sin and guilt of knowing that the nudist are
sexual too speak these words....otherwise nudist should keep their
mouth shut...."
I was having a talk about this last night with my ex-housemate Mark who is
25 years old and he said that this is exactly what is wrong with nudism in
Australia and why it is starting to peter out as a lifestyle and lose its
appeal with younger people. He says that nudists need to embrace more
diversity if they want to win textiles over to their lifestyle and to have
to be what it's not - and that means to accept swingers and GBLT people as
well (Mark is bisexual btw). I have forwarded your commentary to him and
asked for his opinion on it, especially because he and I have done many
organised nudist activities together for almost 5 years now, and he is also
a fan of TGB and how Peter runs the place after seeing the webpage for it.
"see it represents the disrepect i have for nudist and therefore i have no
contempt for swingers although i might not
participate with either group nowadays other than an occassional drop
in to see how things are going.....Anna as much as you have read here
even you would not really learn anything by going to a camp.....you
should have an excellent picture of family nudist reality by
now.....family nudism will never be a real money making business
because like the ol man Benny says in his post here....it does not
attract the young other than dyfunctional misfits families included...."
Perhaps this might be the case in our countries, but not in Europe and the
UK. I'd wager that the younger aged nudists on the IYN and YNAI forum would
disagree with you that all families in nudism are dysfunctional. Even I
have come across a few nudist families in Brisbane who were quite happy and
well-balanced, although I did not get to know them well enough. I'd say the
reason why many family nudists around our way are dysfunctional is because
the parents have a contempt for conventional societal wisdom in the first
place. The nudity has nothing to do with it. It boils down to our basic
selfish human nature which I pointed out before.
Benny W drives home one very important truth that the young don't want to
hear: "When you are young you are told to avoid temptation, but when you
grow older temptation goes out of its way to avoid YOU." What he's said
about the nudist clubs in America is true, but it has not been the
experience with the clubs I've been to. There are little to no organised
activities - least of all beauty contests, although some of them have
organised races to raise money for charities.
The RAW music festival that I've often talked about here was a nudist event
geared to young adults, but it only attracted about 10 punters of its
desired audience base because the organiser held it at a time when there was
another rock concert nearby with more well-known acts that could always
attract a younger audience base and he refused entry to swingers, single men
(the latter until the last minute), and anybody under the age of 18 except
for his own kids. Result: he lost tons of money on the event which he
eventually recouped from the sale of the DVD documentary which was more to
do with the body painting contest rather than the bands that were on there.
There is also a young nudists rock festival called BareFest being organised
in the UK in June this year which is being promoted on Facebook and getting
a healthy amount of people interested (Peter is also a member of its support
group if you care to look).
"even in the seventies heyday of nudist child porn the large camps then
struggled to raise enough money for new facilities ..ie new swimming pool
hot tub or whatever....olive dell still hauls water and has never had enough
money to dig a well......but not so with the swingers...they can attract the
young and the old too...and the sky is their limit.....jz"
You are correct with your last comment. The other day I was leafing through
some swingers groups on Yahoo! groups which were nude friendly and they got
10 times more member interest than the traditional nudist only groups.
See these two for contrast:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brisbane-Naturists (my group)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brisbane-Swingers (owned by a swing club
called Mike's Place)
Enjoy the rest of your w/e! :)
Dario
<posts snipped for brevity>
"Anna....i for the first time am impressed by an older gentleman who tells
it like he has seen it over the years...although he and his wife
were more or less conservative he does tell it like it is......if nudist
could admit that nudism is about exhibitionism and exhibitionism is sexual
if done while naked.....and stop ever referring to textiles as being
anything other than the customer base of which all places of businesses draw
from..whether it be the gas station or the nudist camps....if a nudist is
going to write a book for textiles to respect and find interesting to
read...it will have to be from an actual nudist with not one hint of
contempt for the laws or the textiles that wrote the laws..."
There is a difference between nudism and exhibitionism. Nudism is about
being nude in mutually agreed company without any other intent (note the big
keyword: *INTENT*). Exhibitionism does not have to be about sexuality or
nudity, although of course it can incorporate either of these two, it is
about being noticed whilst other people are not. It can take the part of
performing on stage, preaching on a soapbox, flash-mobbing - just anything
where you are or where you are part of the main focus. Exhibitionism with
nudity can apply to the likes of a Spencer Tunick photo-shoot, or the
displays of civil disobedience by the likes of the Doukhabours, Vincent
Bethell, Terri Sue Webb, Daniel Johnson, Andrew Martinez, Richard Collins
and of course Steven Gough.
Nudism in the modern world was founded on civil disobedience and contempt
for the evils of modern living - pollution, over-crowded living - virtually
everything that the Industrial Revolution brought about. My take on the
laws is simple: if it does not kill, maim or injure any being, then make it
legal (although of course stealing, cheating and lying must not be exempt
from that!)
"it will have to include all thethings that nudist try to suppress....the
sexual part of course and
the fact that some children are like adults they are turned on by
nakedness and there is where that nudist continue to deny deny and
deny....even if they admit it nothing will ever be done about it from
the textiles position other than it would spark more traffic coming to
the camps of which would be more sex seekers....but nudist have a bad
habit of saying bad things and creating animosity between them and the
swingers by stating they cause the nudist to have a bad name.....well
let the nudist without sin and guilt of knowing that the nudist are
sexual too speak these words....otherwise nudist should keep their
mouth shut...."
I was having a talk about this last night with my ex-housemate Mark who is
25 years old and he said that this is exactly what is wrong with nudism in
Australia and why it is starting to peter out as a lifestyle and lose its
appeal with younger people. He says that nudists need to embrace more
diversity if they want to win textiles over to their lifestyle and to have
to be what it's not - and that means to accept swingers and GBLT people as
well (Mark is bisexual btw). I have forwarded your commentary to him and
asked for his opinion on it, especially because he and I have done many
organised nudist activities together for almost 5 years now, and he is also
a fan of TGB and how Peter runs the place after seeing the webpage for it.
"see it represents the disrepect i have for nudist and therefore i have no
contempt for swingers although i might not
participate with either group nowadays other than an occassional drop
in to see how things are going.....Anna as much as you have read here
even you would not really learn anything by going to a camp.....you
should have an excellent picture of family nudist reality by
now.....family nudism will never be a real money making business
because like the ol man Benny says in his post here....it does not
attract the young other than dyfunctional misfits families included...."
Perhaps this might be the case in our countries, but not in Europe and the
UK. I'd wager that the younger aged nudists on the IYN and YNAI forum would
disagree with you that all families in nudism are dysfunctional. Even I
have come across a few nudist families in Brisbane who were quite happy and
well-balanced, although I did not get to know them well enough. I'd say the
reason why many family nudists around our way are dysfunctional is because
the parents have a contempt for conventional societal wisdom in the first
place. The nudity has nothing to do with it. It boils down to our basic
selfish human nature which I pointed out before.
Benny W drives home one very important truth that the young don't want to
hear: "When you are young you are told to avoid temptation, but when you
grow older temptation goes out of its way to avoid YOU." What he's said
about the nudist clubs in America is true, but it has not been the
experience with the clubs I've been to. There are little to no organised
activities - least of all beauty contests, although some of them have
organised races to raise money for charities.
The RAW music festival that I've often talked about here was a nudist event
geared to young adults, but it only attracted about 10 punters of its
desired audience base because the organiser held it at a time when there was
another rock concert nearby with more well-known acts that could always
attract a younger audience base and he refused entry to swingers, single men
(the latter until the last minute), and anybody under the age of 18 except
for his own kids. Result: he lost tons of money on the event which he
eventually recouped from the sale of the DVD documentary which was more to
do with the body painting contest rather than the bands that were on there.
There is also a young nudists rock festival called BareFest being organised
in the UK in June this year which is being promoted on Facebook and getting
a healthy amount of people interested (Peter is also a member of its support
group if you care to look).
"even in the seventies heyday of nudist child porn the large camps then
struggled to raise enough money for new facilities ..ie new swimming pool
hot tub or whatever....olive dell still hauls water and has never had enough
money to dig a well......but not so with the swingers...they can attract the
young and the old too...and the sky is their limit.....jz"
You are correct with your last comment. The other day I was leafing through
some swingers groups on Yahoo! groups which were nude friendly and they got
10 times more member interest than the traditional nudist only groups.
See these two for contrast:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brisbane-Naturists (my group)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brisbane-Swingers (owned by a swing club
called Mike's Place)
Enjoy the rest of your w/e! :)
Dario